Comments for MONTFORT

Comment on Open Thread – Montfort’s Descendants and Genealogy by Katherine

Katherine — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 20:06:26 +0000

Anastasia,

This is wonderful! Looking forward to hearing more…

Comment on Open Thread – Montfort’s Descendants and Genealogy by Anastasia

Anastasia — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:01:30 +0000

Dear Katherine,

There is a strong link between de Montfort and the Habsburgs. But this starts only with Maria Theresa, (13 May 1717 – 29 November 1780), the last of the House of Habsburg. She married Francis I (Francis Stephen, 8 December 1708 – 18 August 1765), Duke of Lorraine and Grand Duke of Tuscany. They are the founders of the Habsburg-Lorraine dynasty.

Francis had as great grandmother Claude de Lorraine, she is our Simons’s father descendant from all her 4 grand parents. Two of them have as ancestor our Simon’s brother Amaury and the other two have as ancestor our Simon. If you’re interested, I have developed a genealogy entitled ‘MONTFORT to HABSBURGS’.

Grandparents of Claude de Lorraine:

1. Charles III, duc de Lorraine et de Bar, XIII grandson of Amaury de Montfort, Simon’s brother.

2. Claude de Valois, daughter of Henry II de Valois, king of France and Catherine de Medicis, XI granddaughter of Amaury de Montfort, Simon’s brother.

3. Vincenzo Gonzaga (21 September 1562 – 9 February 1612), ruler of the Duchy of Mantua, XII grandson of Simon.

4. Eleonora de’ Medici (February 28, 1567 – September 9, 1611) daughter of Francesco I de’ Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany, XIII granddaughter of Simon.

It is almost incredible! And this is less than 15%! The rest is in Italy, France, England, Poland, Belgium and Spain!

The fact is that many, many important historical events in Europe had as main characters his descendants. And what is very strange is that they acted as they were aware all the time of the fact that their ancestor was Simon de Montfort, the great defender of the Catholic faith or Simon de Montfort, the Earl who used to give each person what he deserved no matter if that person was a king, a nobleman, a knight or a commoner. Emperor Joseph II, son of Francis de Lorraine, is considered the first monarch of the Enlightenment, his political work was similar to Simon’s in so many ways….

Comment on Open Thread – Montfort’s Descendants and Genealogy by Katherine

Katherine — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:58:46 +0000

Anastasia,

Thank you so much for sharing this with us! Do let us see more.

Comment on Open Thread – Montfort’s Descendants and Genealogy by Anastasia

Anastasia — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:56:27 +0000

Diana descended from Simon

I have been doing extensive research into the ancestors and descendants of Simon de Montfort: here are some surprises!

Guy de Montfort→Anastasia de Montfort→Roberto Orsini→Nicola Orsini→Raimondello Orsini del Balzo→Caterina Orsini del Balzo→Isabella de Clermont(de Chiaromonte)→Federigo de Aragon→Charlotte de Aragon(de Napoli, de Tarento)→Anne de Montfort→Louis de la Tremouille→Claude, 1st duke de la Tremouille married to Charlotte de Nassau→Charlotte de la Tremouille→Amelia Ann Sophia , Lady Stanley→John Murray→Ann Susan, lady Murray→Catherine Gordon, Lady of Aberdeen→Alexander Gordon→Georgiana Elizabeth, Lady of Gordon→Louisa Jane Russel→James Hamilton→James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd duke of Abercorn→ Cynthia Elinor Beatrix, Lady Hamilton married Albert Edward John Spencer→Edward John 8th Earl Spencer married Frances Ruth Burke→Princess Diana of Wales, mother of William Arthur Philip Louis Windsor.

– Anastasia

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by Katherine

Katherine — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:10:54 +0000

You who are reading, reenacting, going to Renaissance faires, opting out of the 21st century if just for a little while to be in the Middle Ages. What is it we are looking for? Not a time when life was easier. It is as if we have some fundamental “hard wired” hunger for elements of that past time: for a knowledge of herbs, for loyalty to a personally known and nearby figure of leadership, for clothing that celebrates the human shape instead of merely covering it, or concealing it.

For a social system that is knowable: for a system where we are not cast out at the end of high school or college into a vastly complex world where we must sink or swim. In the Middle Ages, and for eons back through time, men and women knew their place in the world from birth, though there was room for the energetic and ambitious to move upward, or the very unfortunate to move downward.

But for most people life was going to be what it was for their parents. What old people knew had value because the world had not changed so greatly during their lifespan as to make their experience irrelevant. The young could feel comfort in the wisdom of their parents.

It is this comfort of continuity, I believe, that we seek in the Middle Ages. We have the traditional culture imprinted within us. We are drawn to it as a magnet draws iron.

For the last third of a century I have spent my most contented hours researching the life and times of Simon de Montfort. His life was far from happy, the complexities that beset him were very “modern”: in addition to his loving the wrong women, he struggled with high interest rates and the jealousy of his fellow lords — what amounted to his co-workers.

But though his problems were not so different from current issues, his solutions — honor, truthfulness, care for his family, fidelity to the principles he had come to believe in — are eternal and yet seem to be slipping from view in our current time amidst the hurly burly of ambition, insecurity and a culture that seems more and more to be holding greed and celebrity as the principal virtues.

How can we capture for ourselves what we perceive to be of worth in the Middle Ages?

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by Katherine

Katherine — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:39:01 +0000

Hello Valentine,
While you point out that the Melfi Constitution of 1231 considerably predates the Provisions of Oxord and includes the common men as advisors to the Emperor Frederic, the commons had only an advisory capacity, but by the Provisions,in England, the elected representatives of the commons were full sharers in the power of the government — with which the king was required to comply. Frederic enlarged his advisors beyond the class limits of the aristocracy, but the Provisions gave them real power, and the slightly later Ordinances consolidated and confirmed that power. Of course later monarchs etched away at Parliament’s power. Cromwell brought it back (with a vengeance.)

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by Valentine

Valentine — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:43:12 +0000

Katherine,
I am sending my letter to the contacts us… It is too long to be posted here. I am telling you my view on the relation between Simon and Frederick II. And another letter will follow today, in which I am sending some documents(from the Internet) on the other aspects I have mentioned in my first comment.
Thank you again!

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by Katherine Ashe

Katherine Ashe — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:22:52 +0000

Valentine,
I’m thrilled to meet you and will be most interested to get your letter on yours views of Simon. How did you become interested in him? Are you presently in Roumania? Is there much interest in him in Roumania? Your English is just fine!
Simon’s sacrifice shows its worth not in my work, but in all the countries that have elective governments. The most I can do is point to him and try to make people aware of what it meant in a world of monarchy to achieve a government sensitive to the will of the people. This evolution toward democracy is still in progress — but then the millennium begun in Simon’s time is not yet completed.

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by Valentine

Valentine — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:14:20 +0000

Dear Katherine,
Thank you for your answer and, please, forgive my English writing, as I think in Romanian. I am going to send you a letter with the main features of my approach on Simon. I have been studying him for 15 years now, I have been to Evesham many times and I could say that he is the centre of my entire life!
I am very happy knowing that thanks to your work, Simon sacrifice, finally, shows its worth!

Comment on Podcast – the WVIA Interview (broadcast of 6/1/2010) by katherine

katherine — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 05:52:06 +0000

Hello Valentine,
I’m delighted to hear from someone so knowledgeable about Simon and with such interesting views. I’m intrigued by your remark about Frederic II. Certainly,had he approved Simon’s viceroyship in Palestine, Simon would likely never have left the East, the Khoresines might not have succeeded in overrunning Palestine, and there might have been no need for Saint Louis’ crusade. But Simon would probably not have been in England, on hand to rescue the Provisions of Oxford and put them into effect. So in the world of alternative outcomes, Frederic was crucial to Simon’s political career. But I sense that this negative influence — in making it impossible for Simon to stay in the East — isn’t what you have in mind.
One outcome of my research was the discovery, for me, that almost everything that happened in Simon’s life was crucial to his motivations and to his being at Oxford at the right moment, equipped with the skills and means of putting the newly conceived parliamentary government into effect. My book runs to four volumes in all for this very reason: I could not cut events without the thread of causality collapsing.
I do hope you can tells us more of the Orsini-Del Balzo-de Luxembourg queen’s relationship to Simon. Is she descended from one of his son Guy’s daughters? Guy was married to an Aldobrandesca.
As for English queens, Elizabeth I might have been descended from Simon through the Tudors. Henry Tudor (Henry VII), after seizing the throne from Richard III, the last of the Plantagenets, made a considerable effort to present himself as being of royal blood. He claimed descent from the unified line of the princes of Wales, which would also have made him a descendent of Simon de Montfort via Simon’s daughter Eleanor who was wed to Llewellyn, the prince of north Wales. Katherine, a daughter from that union, wed the prince of southern Wales, thus bring together the two chief lines of princely Welsh families. Henry’s undoubted ancestor Owen Tudor (perhaps accurately, perhaps not) was represented as descended from that unified Welsh royal line. For the great tournament of The Field of the Cloth of Gold Henry VIII had his genealogical tree painted upon a wall of Winchester Hall with Simon de Montfort prominent among the ancestors of the Tudors.
I certainly agree with you regarding the influence of the Dominicans and Franciscans in Simon’s life, and of his father’s fame as one of the driving motivations in his high sense of honor. As for his being the greatest political hero of Europe, I would say he should be the greatest political hero of all countries that have elective governments.
Thanks for you informed and thought provoking comments.
Katherine